Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby md2000 on Tue 1st Aug 2:59pm

I need your help in taking a well known bike manufacturer to the Disputes Tribunal.

My dropper post (from one of the leading and reputable bike brands) crapped out after 10 months of use (completely siezed).

Manufacturer is refusing to honour warranty and claims it's excess wear & tear, misuse, etc. I think refusing the warranty is a breach of the Consumer Guarantees Act. The Act states that goods must be of acceptable quality and durable and that the only exclusion is goods being "used in a manner or to an extent which is inconsistent with the manner or extent of use that a reasonable consumer would expect to obtain from the goods"

So, assuming you are a "reasonable consumer" can you please tell me whether you think the following is a manner of use that you'd expect to obtain from the dropper without it breaking after 10 months...

Average of approximately 2 hrs per week of riding on tracks that require active dropper post use (Wellington tracks - Makara, Polhill, Wainui, etc). One multi-day ride - The Heaphy Track. No accidents. Always stored under cover in a garage. Wiped down the dropper every time it got muddy.

Please tell me whether you think this is reasonable use, and whether you are happy for me to use your response in the Disputes Tribunal hearing to back up my case?

Thanks in advance!
md2000
Member for: 3 months 2 weeks

Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby el_booto on Tue 1st Aug 3:32pm

for the amount of time you've had it has it been serviced at all?

that's one way i can think they'd have grounds to decline warranty is if you've run it for the full 10 months and not done any routine maintenance, they need to be looked at every once in a while...
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby md2000 on Tue 1st Aug 3:34pm

No it wasn't serviced during this time, but importantly, the user manual made absolutely no reference to it requiring any regular maintenance...it did however claim that it would deliver "years of use".
md2000
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby dwgknz on Tue 1st Aug 4:18pm

el_booto wrote:for the amount of time you've had it has it been serviced at all?

that's one way i can think they'd have grounds to decline warranty is if you've run it for the full 10 months and not done any routine maintenance, they need to be looked at every once in a while...


What does routine maintenance look like though? I had a dropper post fail with sticking and post wear and I was wiping it down and putting slickoleum under the collar after each ride.....
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby oldandlazy on Tue 1st Aug 4:38pm

I thought that a CGA claim was against the vendor instead of the manufacturer? And the disputes tribunal is commonly focused on equitable results rather than the letter of the law. You might not find it too hard to point to the manual and the purchase price and convince a non-cyclist that such an expensive seatpost should last for more than a year without maintenance, especially if the manual doesn't give maintenance instructions.

You are also able to take any international sales material as evidence of the claims being made for the item in advertising.
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby swtchbckr on Tue 1st Aug 4:55pm

10 months isnt very long. I think you've got a valid case. should have lasted a year

name and shame?








Giant, by any chance??
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby oldandlazy on Tue 1st Aug 5:11pm

I've always wondered if the supply agreements between the distributors and the shops allows shops to claim against the supplier if they get a CGA judgement against them. I'd feel fine getting a judgement against the distributors if something doesn't work, but not so sure about a claim from the smaller LBSs I use if they couldn't recover it from further up the chain.

Would any shop staff like to comment?
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby Simpleone on Wed 2nd Aug 11:47am

Most Post need regular servicing, no exceptions. KS for example state at least every 6 months, more if very dusty or wet.
Most common issue is that the posts get water from the frame, as most frames will fill up with water as they are ridden through rivers, puddles, hose washed, or the worst on the car rack in driving rain. I would recommend any one to regularly remove the post form the frame and invert the frame and make sure all the water is out, especially if the bike has been wet.
If you haven't done any maintenance with 80hrs+ ride time then its not going to go well.
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby Dougal on Thu 3rd Aug 4:08pm

Simpleone wrote:Most common issue is that the posts get water from the frame, as most frames will fill up with water as they are ridden through rivers, puddles, hose washed, or the worst on the car rack in driving rain.


Then when the bike is turned upside down all the water runs down into the post.

Cartridge style posts are vented into the frame and suck/blow into the frame every time they go up and down. They are only (kind of) sealed at the top. Just like everything that slides they need care and attention which isn't covered by warranty (like servicing a car). If you feel them getting sticky or grindy then it's well past service time. Let alone seizing.

Unlike a car though bikes don't have flashing lights to remind you of service intervals. Bike manuals are also so generic as to be useless. There are some fully sealed open-bath type droppers which are more like owning a toaster than owning a car. But these are the minority.

@md2000 is this a reasonable quality servicable dropper or a generic throw-away?
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 6 months

Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby phunk on Fri 4th Aug 12:27pm

Im guessing its the Giant contact post, which is a reasonable post given the price, let down a bit by the seal at the top. Mines showing a bit of wear after about a year and rebuilt a couple of times. Unfortunately no spare parts available as the bushing is now worn.
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby Velocipedestrian on Fri 4th Aug 12:36pm

phunk wrote: Mines showing a bit of wear after about a year and rebuilt a couple of times. Unfortunately no spare parts available as the bushing is now worn.

Isn't there something in the CGA about that too?
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby Geordie on Tue 26th Sep 9:17pm

I have one of these and although it was cheap to buy it is a bit of a false economy. I think that if you are only riding the bike as a light user then it is probably going to last a couple of years. However, after a year of heavy use mine is showing some serious wear. The seat shaft has substantial wear caused by the metal ring / busing at the point where it enters the bottom tube. I have applied grease under the screw off collar regularly but there is still substantial wear. At this pace it may last another 12 months but this is not really what I would expect from a serious mountain bike product. I suppose the old saying you get what you pay for applies here. At about $300 for a new Giant post and $500 - $600 for a Reverb seat post I think I would go with the Reverb next time.
Geordie
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby Dougal on Tue 26th Sep 9:31pm

Geordie wrote:I have one of these and although it was cheap to buy it is a bit of a false economy. I think that if you are only riding the bike as a light user then it is probably going to last a couple of years. However, after a year of heavy use mine is showing some serious wear. The seat shaft has substantial wear caused by the metal ring / busing at the point where it enters the bottom tube. I have applied grease under the screw off collar regularly but there is still substantial wear. At this pace it may last another 12 months but this is not really what I would expect from a serious mountain bike product. I suppose the old saying you get what you pay for applies here. At about $300 for a new Giant post and $500 - $600 for a Reverb seat post I think I would go with the Reverb next time.


If you buy a reverb. Then make sure you never, ever pick the bike up by the seat while it's down. If you do they extend and suck air in. Turning from a dropper post into a suspension post. Which then requires a full service to fix. :)

The seat post market has dozens of choices right now. Reverb servicing has been great for Shockcraft.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 6 months

Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby shmoodiver on Tue 26th Sep 9:51pm

Dougal wrote:
Geordie wrote:I have one of these and although it was cheap to buy it is a bit of a false economy. I think that if you are only riding the bike as a light user then it is probably going to last a couple of years. However, after a year of heavy use mine is showing some serious wear. The seat shaft has substantial wear caused by the metal ring / busing at the point where it enters the bottom tube. I have applied grease under the screw off collar regularly but there is still substantial wear. At this pace it may last another 12 months but this is not really what I would expect from a serious mountain bike product. I suppose the old saying you get what you pay for applies here. At about $300 for a new Giant post and $500 - $600 for a Reverb seat post I think I would go with the Reverb next time.


If you buy a reverb. Then make sure you never, ever pick the bike up by the seat while it's down. If you do they extend and suck air in. Turning from a dropper post into a suspension post. Which then requires a full service to fix. :)

The seat post market has dozens of choices right now. Reverb servicing has been great for Shockcraft.


And for b-rad
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Re: Crap Dropper & Consumer Guarantees Act

Postby dwgknz on Wed 27th Sep 6:34am

Geordie wrote:At this pace it may last another 12 months but this is not really what I would expect from a serious mountain bike product. I suppose the old saying you get what you pay for applies here. At about $300 for a new Giant post and $500 - $600 for a Reverb seat post I think I would go with the Reverb next time.


Are the more expensive posts actually better though?? Hear issues about KS and Reverb pretty frequently, less so fox and Thomson. I got about 100 hours out of my first Giant post before they warrantied it without fuss (and then a carbon frame a week after that came back). I’m guessing posts are still quite an immature product in the grand scheme of things and will start to get better in the next few generations.
dwgknz
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