So, factory farming is about to hit NZ (well actually it's been here for years, but lets not let that little detail get in the way of our angst). Apparently giving cows a roof is a bad thing, but making them wander through knee deep mud is fine because it's 'natural'. News flash - the way the dairy industry operates in NZ is in no way 'natural', the only thing natural about it is that it happens outdoors (which in many cases is a very BAD thing as cows are not designed for much of the NZ climate where they live). The treatment of cows is as a commodity - not as something that deserves respect, though they do look pretty in photos as they wander around green fields. So is it all about image? Are we happy for cows to be misstreated as long as it happens outside? No-one seems to be complaining about the treatment to the level they are hand wringing about 'factory farming' ? Is it all ideology over science? Just what does the 'science' say about all this (as it appears absent from media report. . . . why?)

Sure, plenty object to the 'dirty dairying' and say farmers should clean their act up; which factory farming will (apparently) improve upon. So why not? You live in a house dont you? doesn't a cow deserve that same level of comfort? Or is the picture every one has in their mind that of a 'sow crate' not of a dairy factory farm?

discuss.

Has anyone asked the cows what they want?

I don't like the image of it. That is all.

By the way, why is Fonterra evil?

Cows should be allowed to wander freely around over fertilised and over irrigated paddocks except for when they are having their milk sucked out of them. Then we should herd them onto trucks, kill them, turn them into cheap supermarket mince and eat them.

way_downsouth wrote:By the way, why is Fonterra evil?

Its a large monopolistic company that is forcing up the price of basic commodities, the govt really should regulate the crap out of them, plus they poison babies.

phunk wrote:

way_downsouth wrote:By the way, why is Fonterra evil?

Its a large monopolistic company that is forcing up the price of basic commodities, the govt really should regulate the crap out of them.

My bad, I forgot large companies are evil, and how dare they force up global prices.

I prefer to imagine my meat is born wrapped in plastic.

Or should that be :mooo: ?

Okay, taking Thorg's bait....

Personally, I don't understand factory farming completely, but will question and comment on what Thorg has said.

Yes. We hate the mistreatment of animals. Your suggestion that cows spend their life walking in knee deep mud is a stupid comparison to draw. No one would support cow's walking in knee deep mud.

Yes, there is an element of image in it. It is important to New Zealand's economy that this image is kept.

Science is very rarely involved in the media. There is no point in asking why.

Just about everyone hate's dirty dairying. All factors held equal, I would have thought factory farming would be worse, as we are intensifying the waste into a smaller area. More cows - less area. More waste - less area to spread it. Given a standard dairy farm (as we know it) should be controlling where most waste ends up.

In addition, I would expect more water to be used in removing waste from the sheds that are being used, than on a standard farm.

I have no doubt that the sow crate is what people are thinking of, which is not ideal. (although, I am trying to find some photos of what it will actually look like and struggling)

So summary for me, I hate the image for several reasons and cannot see how (admittedly without doing research) how factory farms are more 'environmentally' friendly.

Is that okay thorg? Obviously you have quite strong views on it.

Meat trays in the supermarket do not moo.

Completely different to the cute lil calves in the paddocks.

FWIW, I like NZ beef and lamb far better than anything I've tasted overseas. I attribute it to the fact that they are grass fed rather than grain fed. You wont be feeding cattle green grass in a shed. You'll be using hay or grain.

Can you quantify this "mistreatment" of animals that goes on outdoors? I'm no farmer, but I can tell you that the cat goes stir crazy if it gets shut indoors.

Linkies please to the proposed "factory farming"?

way_downsouth wrote:Okay, taking Thorg's bait....

Personally, I don't understand factory farming completely, but will question and comment on what Thorg has said.

Yes. We hate the mistreatment of animals. Your suggestion that cows spend their life walking in knee deep mud is a stupid comparison to draw. No one would support cow's walking in knee deep mud.

Yes, there is an element of image in it. It is important to New Zealand's economy that this image is kept.

Science is very rarely involved in the media. There is no point in asking why.

Just about everyone hate's dirty dairying. All factors held equal, I would have thought factory farming would be worse, as we are intensifying the waste into a smaller area. More cows - less area. More waste - less area to spread it. Given a standard dairy farm (as we know it) should be controlling where most waste ends up.

In addition, I would expect more water to be used in removing waste from the sheds that are being used, than on a standard farm.

I have no doubt that the sow crate is what people are thinking of, which is not ideal. (although, I am trying to find some photos of what it will actually look like and struggling)

So summary for me, I hate the image for several reasons and cannot see how (admittedly without doing research) how factory farms are more 'environmentally' friendly.

Is that okay thorg? Obviously you have quite strong views on it.

Damnit, your views are normal and realistic.

Cows in many parts of the country actually do spend large amounts of their time in pugged and muddy conditions, which they are not suited to. It is a valid comparison to make when people view 'factory farming' as crated animals 24/7, as in both misrepresent the reality. They are fed suppliments and low quality (but fast growing) grasses to maximise production (which wouldnt change under factory farming).

All things being equal, factory farming is better for the 'environment' than current practices. Most people just dont like the image it portrays.

My issue with all this is most people seem to be concerened with the "image" of factory farming rather than the welfare of the animals.

A well run factory farm is better for both the environment and animal welfare than a badly run 'natural' farm. people seem happy for this to continue - this annoys me.

Sow crates are generally for the pigs well-being, HTH(I'm a twerp)'s

jo wrote:I'm no farmer, but I can tell you that the cat goes stir crazy if it gets shut indoors.

My cow is the same, it hangs out at the door jumping up and down wanting to get out.

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:

jo wrote:I'm no farmer, but I can tell you that the cat goes stir crazy if it gets shut indoors.

My cow is the same, it hangs out at the door jumping up and down wanting to get out.

Yeah, but as soon as you let it out, it's banging away wanting to come back in.

It's not about getting out. It's about having your love attention.