Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Fri 15/Jul/11 2:39pm

neels wrote:the politics of envy is alive and well.


It's fascinating how these political talking points (in this case a phrase that Don Brash has been using) insinuate themselves into the popular debate.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby northernmonkey on Fri 15/Jul/11 2:59pm

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:
neels wrote:the politics of envy is alive and well.


It's fascinating how these political talking points (in this case a phrase that Don Brash has been using) insinuate themselves into the popular debate.


Yes the little German Doctor would be proud...
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby northernmonkey on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:05pm

neels wrote:Good to see the politics of envy is alive and well. :p


interesting response, I assume from the tongue smilie that your taking the mickey but even so I find it interesting that thats the first comment posted in relation to what I said.

No envy at all on my part, the current tax system around second homes works very well in my favour, and yet I'd vote against it (and for a CGT) in a heartbeat because despite the personal financial cost to me I beleive it would be right for the country and society generally. Same with higher rate taxes etc. People do not always act in accord with their own selfish interests and if less people did so we'd all be better off I'd hazzard. :)
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby Spyder on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:21pm

From David Farrar's article in the Herald - and yes, he is somewhat right of center, but interesting/scary numbers (from Labour's release on all this). Fiscally sound - nope, appealing to the "let's get the rich bastards" traditional labour voter - yes.

Amongst the masses of information Labour did make available on their website, there was one document they did not put up. It was in the media pack, but not on their website. It was the table showing what impact on the deficit (and hence debt) Labour's tax package would have each year. According to their own numbers (which are debatable), the impact on Government finances in their first term of office would be:

* 2012/13 - $122m extra revenue

* 2013/14 - $384m less revenue

* 2014/15 - $648m less revenue

* 1st term - $910m less revenue

Now does it get better if Labour won a second term?

* 2015/16 - $466m less revenue

* 2016/17 - $283m less revenue

* 2017/18 - $127m less revenue

* 2nd term - $876m less revenue

So even under Labour's forecasting, Labour would run bigger deficits and debts for their first two terms of office (if elected).

The numbers are even worse than that though. Labour have just invented numbers for how much extra tax they will get with anti-avoidance measures. This is not based on any actual policy or costing. Considering Labour is proposing to have a massive 11 cent difference between the top personal tax rate and the company tax rate, I believe the far more likely scenario is greater tax avoidance, not less.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby happybaboon on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:36pm

Are those numbers actually publicised by Labour, or did Farrar make some assumptions to get to them?
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby wheeltowheel on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:45pm

Spyder wrote:and yes, he is somewhat right of center


He is closely affiliated with the National Party - http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/disclosure_statement

He's also conflating household income with personal income.
Last edited by wheeltowheel on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby happybaboon on Fri 15/Jul/11 3:51pm



Nice to see Labour catching up with National in terms of their ability to spin their policy :thumbsup:
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby Spyder on Fri 15/Jul/11 4:01pm

happybaboon wrote:Are those numbers actually publicised by Labour, or did Farrar make some assumptions to get to them?


I don't know. He says they're in the media pack but not the website. I don't have the media pack - anyone?
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Fri 15/Jul/11 4:05pm

wheeltowheel wrote:He is closely affiliated with the National Party.


He also starred in Dr Who in the 1970s.
sontaran.jpg
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby happybaboon on Fri 15/Jul/11 6:23pm

Spyder wrote:
happybaboon wrote:Are those numbers actually publicised by Labour, or did Farrar make some assumptions to get to them?


I don't know. He says they're in the media pack but not the website. I don't have the media pack - anyone?

I'm thinking that if such dire predictions were actually publicised by Labour somewhere that the actual media would have picked up on it, rather than just the puppet lobbyists... :huh:
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby neels on Fri 15/Jul/11 6:55pm

northernmonkey wrote:interesting response, I assume from the tongue smilie that your taking the mickey.

Pretty much.

northernmonkey wrote:No envy at all on my part, the current tax system around second homes works very well in my favour, and yet I'd vote against it (and for a CGT) in a heartbeat because despite the personal financial cost to me I beleive it would be right for the country and society generally. Same with higher rate taxes etc. People do not always act in accord with their own selfish interests and if less people did so we'd all be better off I'd hazzard. :)

I agree completely, and to be honest if people are buying and selling property to make money they should be paying tax, and I can't see why it should only at 15%, it should be added onto their income or done through a company. If the means to claim losses was removed, then the net result would be either higher rents or cheaper houses, either of which work for me too.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby znomit on Fri 15/Jul/11 7:08pm

neels wrote:I agree completely, and to be honest if people are buying and selling property to make money they should be paying tax, and I can't see why it should only at 15%, it should be added onto their income or done through a company.


This point was made by the Nats on the wireless this morning. If you're making a bucketload off capital gains you should be declaring it and paying the top rate right now. Labour will let these people legitimately pay only 15%.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby Simonius_Titius on Fri 15/Jul/11 8:02pm

northernmonkey wrote:
E Dogg Capizzle wrote:
neels wrote:the politics of envy is alive and well.


It's fascinating how these political talking points (in this case a phrase that Don Brash has been using) insinuate themselves into the popular debate.


Yes the little German Doctor would be proud...


This may not be an example but here's one way these phrases get around:

The CAPTCHA (distorted letters that prove you are human) that one types in before downloading one's "free" large downloads of movies, pirated software etc pay for the bandwidth, which can cost more than the ads on some sites could support. The CAPTCHA is used to create ficticious user accounts on forums, news sites etc, then those accounts are used by PR companies to push talking points for their clients.
Who are the clients? Anyone with money and a message suitable for robotic delivery.
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Re: Capital Gains Tax

Postby northernmonkey on Fri 15/Jul/11 10:31pm

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:
wheeltowheel wrote:He is closely affiliated with the National Party.


He also starred in Dr Who in the 1970s.


Surely that's Rodney Hide
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