Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby cruiser on Mon 20/Aug/12 5:06pm

phunk wrote:
BikeNZ_Membership wrote:The MTBNZ selectors stressed at the AGM that their selection criteria is deliberately set high, so riders can perform against the best in the world.

Or pressured into setting high criteria by BikeNZ so that no-one qualified and they could reallocate the place to a dirty trackie?


No, MTBNZ are the guys setting the bar high and the selection policy is not Olympic-specific. It's probably a lower standard than applied to track to be fair.

It's partly about setting higher standards for our riders to aspire to and partly about being able to better contribute to the riders who qualify for World Champs. i.e instead of top 3-5 in each age grade paying $2000 towards going, only riders who meet a certain level of performance go and might only pay $500 each.
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby cruiser on Mon 20/Aug/12 5:33pm

Regarding the Trail Pass, this too is driven by MTBNZ. In Particular Ric Balfour, who is keen to see the standards, advocacy and knowledge within NZ trail development go up.

With all that could be done, I'd rather my $15 went to a national cause and I contribute separately at a local level - might be a way to get around those who feel $15 buys them the right to abstain from local work.

Another issue raised is the problem of small clubs with high users. e.g Rotorua or Hanmer (4 members). A national trail fund could even the inequity out based on users.

Some people need to get over their baggage with BikeNZ, if people got behind it we should be onto a good thing with MTB able to tap into BikeNZ's bigger resource pool.
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby Mickyfinn on Mon 20/Aug/12 7:33pm

EoinC wrote:...and most do naff all, so do feel free to list.


not much.... just do my bit to put right years of poor education excessive alcohol consumption and 400 hundred years of no socila traininng. i could go on but a I winge too much
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 20/Aug/12 8:23pm

Mickyfinn wrote:
EoinC wrote:...and most do naff all, so do feel free to list.


not much.... just do my bit to put right years of poor education excessive alcohol consumption and 400 hundred years of no socila traininng. i could go on but a I winge too much


WTF does this mean?
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby EoinC on Mon 20/Aug/12 8:54pm

Dunno - Something about traininng [sic] socila quango's to take over the World, and apparently BikeNZ is at the heart of it. Personally, I'm all for it.
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby glenkoorey on Tue 21/Aug/12 12:27am

thekiwi wrote:
sifter wrote:My recollection is that Cycling Advocates Network cancelled their BikeNZ membership after BikeNZ collected govt funding for advocacy for over a year without having anyone in that role. At least on the Wellington scene, there are a bunch of outfits I'd much rather put money into for those reasons.

Yea acknowledge that ... and this is all about **change**.
The Document they have posted I believe, has at its centre, a change in direction where they reflect the needs of a great range of cyclists and part of that **could** be advocacy. Its also about providing some quantifiable benefits for riders at all levels. CAN dont have the reach that a national body will/could have so going forward I can see benefits of BikeNZ being involved in this. Maybe BikeNZ will get one chance to show they can be trusted and if they stuff it up (which to date they have stuffed up a lot of things) then it could be all over for them, they lose huge chunks of funding and they go back to just doing High Performance.

As you say, there will always be people "regionally" who can do parts of the job, be it promoting track building, advocacy, coaching, development, schools etc etc ... but you end up with a whole gaggle of groups/individuals doing things there own way ... and when it comes time to have a coordinated approach for a larger issue (or getting larger buckets of $$) it all falls in a heap. Maybe, just maybe, BikeNZ can see Cycling taken to another level nationally for everyone. But then again, maybe I dream a little too much :)


Um, CAN is a national body; it's the umbrella organisation for all local advocacy groups around NZ, and has the ear of the likes of the Ministry of Transport and NZ Transport Agency; plus it tends to be the first place that media go to for issues around cycling safety, funding, etc. So not sure how much more "reach" they could have...

Having said that, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since CAN left BikeNZ 5 years ago. CAN and BikeNZ have a Memorandum of Understanding and now do a lot of work together, including joint media releases and they have combined to undertake the Safer Cycling project (http://can.org.nz/article/nzta-safer-cycling-programme) for NZTA. CAN have a strong volunteer base and good technical expertise, but few staff; BikeNZ have the advantage of more staff and associated resources like marketing/communications.

As many people have said, the proof will be in what finally happens on the ground, but I believe the right intentions are there.
glenkoorey
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby thekiwi on Tue 21/Aug/12 9:21am

glenkoorey wrote:
thekiwi wrote:
sifter wrote:My recollection is that Cycling Advocates Network cancelled their BikeNZ membership after BikeNZ collected govt funding for advocacy for over a year without having anyone in that role. At least on the Wellington scene, there are a bunch of outfits I'd much rather put money into for those reasons.

Yea acknowledge that ... and this is all about **change**.
The Document they have posted I believe, has at its centre, a change in direction where they reflect the needs of a great range of cyclists and part of that **could** be advocacy. Its also about providing some quantifiable benefits for riders at all levels. CAN dont have the reach that a national body will/could have so going forward I can see benefits of BikeNZ being involved in this. Maybe BikeNZ will get one chance to show they can be trusted and if they stuff it up (which to date they have stuffed up a lot of things) then it could be all over for them, they lose huge chunks of funding and they go back to just doing High Performance.

As you say, there will always be people "regionally" who can do parts of the job, be it promoting track building, advocacy, coaching, development, schools etc etc ... but you end up with a whole gaggle of groups/individuals doing things there own way ... and when it comes time to have a coordinated approach for a larger issue (or getting larger buckets of $$) it all falls in a heap. Maybe, just maybe, BikeNZ can see Cycling taken to another level nationally for everyone. But then again, maybe I dream a little too much :)


Um, CAN is a national body; it's the umbrella organisation for all local advocacy groups around NZ, and has the ear of the likes of the Ministry of Transport and NZ Transport Agency; plus it tends to be the first place that media go to for issues around cycling safety, funding, etc. So not sure how much more "reach" they could have...

Having said that, a lot of water has gone under the bridge since CAN left BikeNZ 5 years ago. CAN and BikeNZ have a Memorandum of Understanding and now do a lot of work together, including joint media releases and they have combined to undertake the Safer Cycling project (http://can.org.nz/article/nzta-safer-cycling-programme) for NZTA. CAN have a strong volunteer base and good technical expertise, but few staff; BikeNZ have the advantage of more staff and associated resources like marketing/communications.

As many people have said, the proof will be in what finally happens on the ground, but I believe the right intentions are there.


Yea, didnt word that well.
I dont dispute that CAN is a National Body, but all they do is advocacy and many would also suggest that at times they can be a little "too fringe" for some. If Advocacy can be brought under a National Body which oversees a host of cyclings needs then that is possibly what BikeNZ are aiming for ... but whether its a good thing or not ... time will tell. I can understand what they are saying that a larger body can have more impact, but it also can have negative aspects.
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby benw on Fri 24/Aug/12 10:36am

BikeNZ_Membership wrote:
thelongwalk wrote:
RugbySucks wrote:One of the issues that seems to be in the minds of many commenting, is the lack of clear understanding about what benefits will arise from the BikeNZ proposal on Fees. Should a rider pay them.

Personally, I cannot see any gains. We do not need BikeNZ assistance to build trails around Belmont. In the same way that Makara Peak boys don't in Makara. Preferring to get on with building than talking......

From my club' point of view I can though. Especially with insurance cover, for when we are Trail-building on public land.
However, this can be arranged very easily by the club.

Another issue appears to be, that many mtb riders don't have a lot of confidence in any of the extra funds filtering back towards MTB activity.

Timing wise, with the announcement of the new Velodrome in Waikato, my first thought is a bit cynical when it comes to wondering how this will be paid for.

Seems to be a lot more MTBers than trackies. Which translates into a bigger 'ongoing funding resource ' possibility .

My 2.45 cents worth.


I'd think you'd find Rugby that Makara is really struggling to get people to dig new trail/do maintenance. At Polhill we were given $5000 from a running group and it changed the way we could do things, made us a lot stronger. We could hire people to help build track. Some of the school kids we hired dug at Makara. I'd love to see money to help pay for this. Not many people want to push a wheelbarrow of gravel 100-150 metres and then repeat. On a seperate matter I think the city council should also start looking at paying for this also.


Re your point about accessing council funding - make contact with your BikeNZ Regional Development Co-ordinator (RDC) to see what help we can provide with applications >> RDC contact details here http://ow.ly/d3s5d

Kevin / thelongwalk - Wellington City Council is already paying for trail maintenance but we keep on building new track so the amount under maintenance increases while the budget is getting chopped.

Regarding the gravel labour though, I can't remember if you guys have had a go or not at using Corrections to help? You'll get variable results (depends on the weather, crews attitude, supervisor etc.) but WCC can give you the hook up or ping me to remind me and I can dig it out.

Also, we haven't caught up since but after our last WTA get together / pub evening Nessa and I have been working through a proposal to raise funds for maintenance, get those to the Wellington MTB Club and then use them on paid contractors to do maintenance (primarily gravel, drainage rework and scrub cutting). We plan on using the Club structure to provide the governance but have WTA do most of the leg work on talking to funders. It's early days but I have a meeting with Amber @ WCC on Monday to walk them through where we are at, discuss deliver issues (OSH, Insurance etc.).

Then our next discussion at Committee will be October. Want to come along and listen in? Polhill is on the list of sites that we've proposed could benefit from this, funding dependent, but we plan on starting with Mt Vic in the first instance.
benw
Member for: 11 years 11 months

Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby benw on Fri 24/Aug/12 11:08am

cruiser wrote:Regarding the Trail Pass, this too is driven by MTBNZ. In Particular Ric Balfour, who is keen to see the standards, advocacy and knowledge within NZ trail development go up.

With all that could be done, I'd rather my $15 went to a national cause and I contribute separately at a local level - might be a way to get around those who feel $15 buys them the right to abstain from local work.

Another issue raised is the problem of small clubs with high users. e.g Rotorua or Hanmer (4 members). A national trail fund could even the inequity out based on users.

Some people need to get over their baggage with BikeNZ, if people got behind it we should be onto a good thing with MTB able to tap into BikeNZ's bigger resource pool.

It seems for my sins and complaining I have been elected to be Club Development officer for MTBNZ for the coming year so would be good to keep this discussion going.

For the Trail Pass there are lots of details to be sorted out ahead of the BikeNZ AGM (October) which is the new venue for voting on the Trail Pass idea and membership changes. My own personal view is that I would like to see a model of BikeNZ supporting the clubs by developing a "Trail Pass" brand that individual Clubs then offer to members directly as part of a membership application. Members would get an option to add the "Trail Pass" to their membership, the local Clubs could also go out and discuss support of the "Trail Pass" in their area with local bike shops, hardware stores, other businesses etc. but all that the money stays in the local Club and keeps it local / grass roots. So a nationally back campaign that keeps as much of the money local as possible.

Then it could also have the option of where a person doesn't want to join a club to donate to a national Trail Pass funding pool (similar to how the IMBA Trail Fund works) that has a set of specific purposes (can be applied for for local projects, could provide training materials, supports some of the national branding / marketing of the Trail Pass etc.) but is clearly laid out where the money is intended to go (and then each year where it actually went).

In the US the IMBA Trail Fund provides funds to help seed projects as well as helping larger or more established projects / Clubs with matching funds. In the 'seed' case they can provide funds to get a proposal together by a professional track / park designer and then you're off and hunting for sponsors and legal permission etc. So definite value in having some funds at a National level, to fill in the gaps if you like.

So my goal will be a model that gets the awareness up like a National level campaign / idea / brand can, but that then keeps it as efficient as possible (i.e. money stays with Clubs if it is given to Clubs, they don't have to pass it up and then apply for it back).

Whatever happens there will have to be a lot of clarity and transparency around any funds that pass up to the national body, how they will get used, who decides what etc. and that detail is intended to be provided - just hasn't been provided yet.

Anyway, those were my own personal views and I think it's important that we (MTBNZ and through us BikeNZ) listen to what the Clubs need as it needs to be more clearly bottoms up / driven from Club and members needs than it has been to date, at least IMHO. Craig (the voice behind the membership login here) has done a great job in getting more communication going here and on the blog that was setup.

So I am sure there will be more good and spirited discussion on this at the September 30th MTBNZ committee meeting which is the first for the new 2012 / 2013 team so important to keep this discusion going. Anyone with some specific points they want to make for themselves or their Club can keep posting them here or mail them to myself if you'd prefer, ben.r.wilde@gmail.com.
benw
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby mark2c on Wed 29/Aug/12 6:24pm

Sire, the track workers are revolting...
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby cruiser on Wed 29/Aug/12 7:25pm

How long before Rotorua track builders revolt from the jafa invasion?

benw wrote:Whatever happens there will have to be a lot of clarity and transparency around any funds that pass up to the national body, how they will get used, who decides what etc. and that detail is intended to be provided - just hasn't been provided yet.


While we sleep, someone, somewhere has toothpicks and coffee holding his eyelids open while he writes the details on white paper
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby phunk on Wed 29/Aug/12 8:32pm

mark2c wrote:Sire, the track workers are revolting...


A bit smelly perhaps, but i wouldnt call them revolting...
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby Colin on Wed 29/Aug/12 8:40pm

benw wrote:Then it could also have the option of where a person doesn't want to join a club to donate to a national Trail Pass funding pool

Any way to aim this at overseas visitors. Show'n a little appreciation for the single track.
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby cruiser on Wed 29/Aug/12 9:52pm

Smartphone or parking meter device at trailheads. In goes the money, out comes a sticker to wear with pride and good karma :D
cruiser
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Re: Bike Nz Membership Update

Postby Joel on Wed 29/Aug/12 9:57pm

or enforce 30min parking limits at the carparks, and get the councils to heavily enforce with fines going towards the velodrome.. err i meant trail.
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