Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby j2hyde on Fri 15/May/09 11:16am

Uhhh, the words "Great Rides" fill me with fear. Ever done any of the "Great walks"? First, you get some of the nicest tramps in the country, then you cram them chock full of tourists, who have no idea how to tramp properly. So then you have to build fancy huts and flush toilets, then you have to run a digger through the tracks so fat cunzzors can do it on their segways, then you need a booking system, and publicity and of course people have to pay for all that.

Now with a track like the Kepler, which was cut specifically for this purpose I suppose all this is OK. It's not a great tramp anyway. But in other areas perfectly good wilderness tramps have been almost ruined by this "Greatification" process. They're threatening to do it to the Dusky too.

So by all means build cycleways, but don't go turning high quality existing singletrack into munter highways for the sake of a few tourist bucks.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby phunk on Fri 15/May/09 11:30am

Oli wrote:So $50 million injected into cycling can be a bad thing? You're a hard man to please! :crazy:


Yes, when it is taken from people with no interest in cycling and no say into how it is spent.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby sifter on Fri 15/May/09 11:33am

phunk wrote:
Oli wrote:So $50 million injected into cycling can be a bad thing? You're a hard man to please! :crazy:


Yes, when it is taken from people with no interest in cycling and no say into how it is spent.


They entrusted Key with this decision :thumbsup: ;)
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby ThingOne on Fri 15/May/09 11:35am

phunk wrote:
Oli wrote:So $50 million injected into cycling can be a bad thing? You're a hard man to please! :crazy:


Yes, when it is taken from people with no interest in cycling and no say into how it is spent.


FAIL..
I have no interest in many things the govt spends money on, if we all had to agree and directly benefit on where funds where directed, nothing would get spent. :crazy:
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby scatter on Fri 15/May/09 11:42am

thorg wrote:
Oli wrote:So $50 million injected into cycling can be a bad thing? You're a hard man to please! :crazy:
Not a bad thing - it's just 50 mill could be FANTASTIC, and I fear it will be less so :huh:

:withstupid:
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby phunk on Fri 15/May/09 11:42am

ThingOne wrote:
phunk wrote:
Oli wrote:So $50 million injected into cycling can be a bad thing? You're a hard man to please! :crazy:


Yes, when it is taken from people with no interest in cycling and no say into how it is spent.


FAIL..
I have no interest in many things the govt spends money on, if we all had to agree and directly benefit on where funds where directed, nothing would get spent. :crazy:


Sounds good to me, justify stealing money however you like if it helps you sleep at night.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby JKS on Fri 15/May/09 2:13pm

Does anyone know is it for road cycling or mountainbiking? Makes quite a difference. If road could be just upgrading and improving cycle lanes. If offroad, a whole different ball game.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby crazychris on Fri 15/May/09 2:27pm

JKS wrote:Does anyone know is it for road cycling or mountainbiking? Makes quite a difference. If road could be just upgrading and improving cycle lanes. If offroad, a whole different ball game.

They often refer to the Otago Rail Trail, so I think non-tar-seal but not a rutted, rooty, technical, 2,000km stretch either.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby Trail on Fri 15/May/09 2:34pm

j2hyde wrote:Uhhh, the words "Great Rides" fill me with fear. Ever done any of the "Great walks"? First, you get some of the nicest tramps in the country, then you cram them chock full of tourists, who have no idea how to tramp properly. So then you have to build fancy huts and flush toilets, then you have to run a digger through the tracks so fat cunzzors can do it on their segways, then you need a booking system, and publicity and of course people have to pay for all that.

Now with a track like the Kepler, which was cut specifically for this purpose I suppose all this is OK. It's not a great tramp anyway. But in other areas perfectly good wilderness tramps have been almost ruined by this "Greatification" process. They're threatening to do it to the Dusky too.

So by all means build cycleways, but don't go turning high quality existing singletrack into munter highways for the sake of a few tourist bucks.


You are such a pessimist!

Great Walks actually do serve a purpose. They introduce people who would not handle a usual tramping track to the outdoors. Kind of like the Otago Rail Trail introduces people to doing an off road cycle tour. The numbers of people who have done the Otago Rail Trail is quite amazing. The way it has saved little towns that were dying along the route is fantastic too. Now imagine this happening all over NZ.

They wont be digging up any good singletrack to make a cycle route... it will all be old rail, old road, old 4wd tracks.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby j2hyde on Fri 15/May/09 3:35pm

Trail wrote:You are such a pessimist!


Yeah, sometimes ;)

But the "introduces new people" argument is similar to that for removing rocks from trails because somebody can't ride them. The fact is there are plenty of easy tramps around for people to learn the ropes. And call it elitist if you like but all the experienced trampers I know avoid the touristy tracks (great walks) like the plague, because that kind of experience is at odds with what they enjoy about the activity.

But if this cycleway is all rail trail type stuff then its a moot point. I suppose I was thinking about what's been happening to the likes of QCT.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby Trail on Fri 15/May/09 3:54pm

j2hyde wrote:
Trail wrote:You are such a pessimist!


Yeah, sometimes ;)

But the "introduces new people" argument is similar to that for removing rocks from trails because somebody can't ride them. The fact is there are plenty of easy tramps around for people to learn the ropes. And call it elitist if you like but all the experienced trampers I know avoid the touristy tracks (great walks) like the plague, because that kind of experience is at odds with what they enjoy about the activity.

But if this cycleway is all rail trail type stuff then its a moot point. I suppose I was thinking about what's been happening to the likes of QCT.


Yep, I avoid the tourist tramps like the plague myself...

I dont agree with your comment about there being plenty of easy tramps around. Most walks that have not been "Great Walk-a-fied" involve waaay too much navigation and rough ground and unbridged river crossing for numpties to attempt.

Experienced trampers still have so many options of places to go, and so many of those places will never be "Great walk-a-fied"

Bit I saw on National Cycle way mentioned "semi-paved", although it might expand to included things like QCW as they are including already developed cycleways. However I cant see them bull dozing many other single tracks. Heaphy would make a good addition... but it is already as wide as a 4wd motorbike....
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby thorg on Fri 15/May/09 3:59pm

j2hyde wrote:Yeah, sometimes ;)

But the "introduces new people" argument is similar to that for removing rocks from trails because somebody can't ride them. The fact is there are plenty of easy tramps around for people to learn the ropes. And call it elitist if you like but all the experienced trampers I know avoid the touristy tracks (great walks) like the plague, because that kind of experience is at odds with what they enjoy about the activity.
No - not really. The issue of greatwalks is one of different user groups and standards provided. the rocks one is same user group requiring different standards. ok its a technicality (and most would say semantics) - but for planning purposes its a critical distinction to make.

In principal, I think you have hit the nail on the head - as I see it, the biggest challenge to this process (and the deciding factor between epic fail and epic win) is in defining the user group and standards that they require.
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby jimmi on Fri 15/May/09 4:00pm

Oli wrote:Or...it might be sometimes great and sometimes average. Better this massive commitment to cycling than nothing, is my feeling.


Im with you on this Oli, I cant see a down side!
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby JKS on Fri 15/May/09 4:11pm

j2hyde wrote:
Trail wrote:You are such a pessimist!


But if this cycleway is all rail trail type stuff then its a moot point. I suppose I was thinking about what's been happening to the likes of QCT.


What's wrong with the QCT? That is speaking as a numptie :butbut:
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Re: $50m For National Cycleway Says Key

Postby Fergie on Fri 15/May/09 4:32pm

Would be nicer to see 50mil spent on indoor velodromes for Christchurch and Auckland. Some International Standard BMX tracks, some purpose built XC circuits and if there is change some purpose built road circuits like they have in Japan and Australia.
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