1080 Any Good?

Postby onyabike on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:16am

It's here. It's there. It falls from the sky.
The intentions are good - rid (or lessen) the threat to forests and indigenous species from introduced pests (mainly the possum). But is it good for the overall environment - not many other countries allow 1080 use.
I picked up a soggy 1080 bait in my front tyre tread riding on the coast a couple of years back - would it have shut me up if it flicked in my gob?

So - does anyone have reports, positive or otherwise, of how the forests are faring near you and your riding zones? I've heard people talk of 'birdsong returning after years of absence' - and yet others talk of the 'silent forest' following 1080 drops.
1080 sign.jpg
possum.jpg
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby isnowi on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:27am

as i understand it, 1080 is far more lethal to non-targeted species than it is to possums. Dogs in particular are affected, i would like to see its toxicity towards native species, versus possums.

I remember hearing that NZ is the only westernised country that still allows it's widespread use, does anyone know how accurate this is? There are obviously a myriad of reasons why other countries don't allow it.

My partners dog died from eating a 1080 poisoned carcass that had been sitting for quite a while, so it obviously has a considerable residual risk.
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby BrokenKonaRider on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:36am

Oh, so you want biased conjecture, limited direct experience, self-interested flatulence, and anecdotal emotional ravings? Oh maybe you should attempt to read the science on the issue? There was very recently an easily readable summary by Dave Hansforfd in the NZ Geographic magazine that summed up several points of view as well as providing an overview of the scientific evidence on 1080 impacts:
http://www.nzgeographic.co.nz/articles.php?ID=285
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Conners on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:48am

I still remember Tony Hawk landing the first 1080 in competition way back in 1998.
It was more than good, it was awesome - probably one of the defining moments in vert skateboarding.



Oh, not that 1080....
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Podgos on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:50am

I like your thinking BrokenKonaRider. There is plenty of good science out there to show the benefits if you can be bothered to find it. All you're going to get on here is personal opinions from people without the info on the big picture. Sure there may be a little collateral damage but what's the alternative? No native bush left? I know what I'd rather.

This issue pisses me off! There are so many people out there who think they know what they are talking about with regard to 1080, and that DVD pretty much sums up the ignorance of those types of people. Do they think that DoC (the Department of CONSERVATION) would be continuing with its use if it wasn't working. The proof is in the pudding, go to a piece of bush that is managed vs not managed....

One persons dog dies, because they don't read a sign saying there has been a 1080 drop and now 1080 is the devil! Pffftt
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Podgos on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:50am

Conners wrote:I still remember Tony Hawk landing the first 1080 in competition way back in 1998.
It was more than good, it was awesome - probably one of the defining moments in vert skateboarding.



Oh, not that 1080....



GOLD
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Yogi on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:55am

isnowi wrote:as i understand it, 1080 is far more lethal to non-targeted species than it is to possums. Dogs in particular are affected, i would like to see its toxicity towards native species, versus possums.

I remember hearing that NZ is the only westernised country that still allows it's widespread use, does anyone know how accurate this is? There are obviously a myriad of reasons why other countries don't allow it.


I believe Australia, United States, Mexico, Israel and a number of small island nations use 1080 for pest control.

isnowi wrote: My partners dog died from eating a 1080 poisoned carcass that had been sitting for quite a while, so it obviously has a considerable residual risk.


How long after the drop did your partner take the dog into the area? 1080 breaks down pretty quickly. It must suck having your dog die, but read the signs and listen to the DOC warnings about drops. You can't blame 1080 for doing its job if you ignore the warnings.

I hear some nutter is hanging out on Mt Tongariro until the documentary "Poisoning Paradise" is played on TV. http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/man-threatens-die-mountain-in-protest-2949328 :hmmm: If it's the documentary i think it is it's quite poorly backed up and makes some wild claims. Plus has some provocative dying scenes of pest animals.... unfortunately conservation in NZ is a messy business until we come up with something better.
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby isnowi on Thu 27/Aug/09 11:58am

Yogi wrote:How long after the drop did your partner take the dog into the area? 1080 breaks down pretty quickly. It must suck having your dog die, but read the signs and listen to the DOC warnings about drops. You can't blame 1080 for doing its job if you ignore the warnings.
I don't know the specifics of timing, however the carcass was on farmland, several kilometers from an aerial drop.

Don't get me wrong, the possums have to go, and 1080 appears to be doing a very good job at doing so, but, i'd like to know if alternative poisons and methods have been given due consideration? I'm sure exhaustive studies carried out at the inception of 1080 use showed that it was the most effective method at the time, the 1950's, a decade where human's were exposed to nuclear blasts just to see what happens, and a decade where cigarette smoke was harmless. Times have changed and poison/pharmaceuticals/chemisrty is a huge industry that offers numerous alternatives to 1080, some of which may offer better performance, in terms of pest control and treatment for accidental poisoning.
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby thorg on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:02pm

isnowi wrote:as i understand it, 1080 is far more lethal to non-targeted species than it is to possums. Dogs in particular are affected, i would like to see its toxicity towards native species, versus possums.
it kills mammels very effectivly. mammels are the target.
isnowi wrote:I remember hearing that NZ is the only westernised country that still allows it's widespread use, does anyone know how accurate this is? There are obviously a myriad of reasons why other countries don't allow it.
Australia throw quite a bit of it around, with far less restrictions than here, for one.
isnowi wrote:My partners dog died from eating a 1080 poisoned carcass that had been sitting for quite a while, so it obviously has a considerable residual risk.
I am sorry your partners dog died. In saying that, if 1080 was where it shouldnt have been, someone fucked up. If the dog was where it shouldnt have been, the owner fucked up. 1080 breaks down increadbly quickly inside living organisms and in the water (under normal circumstances). Once an animal dies however, the breakdown ceases - therefore, an animal that dies of 1080 will still have the poison in its system till it is broken down by either other animals (worms and grubs, that dont die from 1080) or the environment. Unfortunatly for your partners dog, this is what most likely happened.

I have eaten 1080 - a whole pellet, no effect whatsoever (I was mad before eating the stuff). Canines are VERY suseptable to the stuff.

I hate the stuff. currently it is the most effective poison for the job. nothing else comes close, sadly.
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Yogi on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:02pm

Podgos wrote:Do they think that DoC (the Department of CONSERVATION) would be continuing with its use if it wasn't working. The proof is in the pudding, go to a piece of bush that is managed vs not managed....


Don't you know that DOC are out to get us!?! They're also poisoning our water and buying up high country farms to screw everyone (actually the National government has just put an axe to that.... apparently farmers and farms are great for maintaining biodiversity :blink: )
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Yogi on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:05pm

thorg wrote: I hate the stuff. currently it is the most effective poison for the job. nothing else comes close, sadly.


:thumbsup:
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby jnumbaz on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:20pm

1080 is only really any good if you have Blu-Ray. Otherwise it's just a waste.
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Conners on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:48pm

jnumbaz wrote:1080 is only really any good if you have Blu-Ray. Otherwise it's just a waste.

1080p that is ;)
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby jnumbaz on Thu 27/Aug/09 1:05pm

Conners wrote:
jnumbaz wrote:1080 is only really any good if you have Blu-Ray. Otherwise it's just a waste.

1080p that is ;)


no no, any 1080 is wasted when the sauce is only 720. or 420 :crazy:
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Re: 1080 Any Good?

Postby Conners on Thu 27/Aug/09 1:14pm

jnumbaz wrote:
Conners wrote:
jnumbaz wrote:1080 is only really any good if you have Blu-Ray. Otherwise it's just a waste.

1080p that is ;)


no no, any 1080 is wasted when the sauce is only 720. or 420 :crazy:

Mmmmmm, sauce.
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